Hello and good day to you from episode 37 of our podcast series Project Breakaway. A metaphorical and literal time in the day when we here at Predator cycling take some time away from working in the back shop to come and share with our listeners what we're doing, how we're doing it, what it takes to do it, our ideas, our innovative success stories and even our missteps and failures. If you find yourself with an interest in bicycles, composite manufacturing, out of the box design or even curiosities beyond. I encourage you to stick with us, settle in and learn a little. I'm Courtney B, co-owner and project manager of Predator cycling. And I'm here with my partner Arm Goan, the other co-owner, CEO, lead designer and engineer and tube sliding potato sack champion guy. That was pretty good. Yeah, I don't know what it was. So we took the boys to a pumpkin patch today. Yeah, that's fun. Like the ones with all the different, I don't know, they look they're like playgrounds, but they're they're very dangerous looking playgrounds. So you went. It's like farm DIY playgrounds. I mean, it's great because they reuse like construction equipment. Like there's like nails and stuff. So you went down like a sewer pipe. It's like a drainage, a massive big drainage pipe. On a potato sack. That was shredded to pieces. But it's like bumpy. So and I our son came down. And I was like, great. Where's your dad? Well, it's hard to get speed. I had to push him down, told you not to push him, but like. I was like, he's not going to move. I don't understand how anyone got speed going down that slide. Yeah, it was hard. But you came out. I got out, I made it to the bottom, I mean, gravity was helpful and I kind of scooted my way down. Yeah, so we did um, construction slides and um, obviously pumpkins. And sand dart. Yeah, sand dart, he liked that. I'm surprised he liked that. Um, corn maze and sandbox, but not sand, corn, but corn box. Oh yeah, corn in it. That was fun too. Yeah, kids liked that. But. Corn dust everywhere. Anyway. There was lots of dust and dirt. So we are back. We are. On a Saturday. Nice nice to see you. It's a pleasure. Um. So our last episode, long long time ago, five, six, seven months ago. Can't remember. Oh my gosh. Son is now one, so I think he was a baby crying last time. We did a podcast, but. Yeah. We're back. In the same room together. And um, so the last one we talked about the pilot major track bar. Yep. So now jump forward to today. Yes. And here we are in October. 2022. And uh, now if you log on to predatorcycling.com and go to products and go to cockpit cockpit systems. Mhm. You'll see the track bars available. You will. They're retailing beginning at $1,395. Yep. And uh, next to it, you'll see the Predator road bar. Yep. Cockpit. Um, which says coming soon. Yes. So, um. Now, it is coming soon. It is. It's Yes. It's designed, it's ready, we're just tweaking a few things. There's been some sneak peaks of them as well. Yes. So, both of these bars, um, whenever we have customers interested and email us or hit that little I'm interested button on the website. Yeah. I automatically reply that I recommend a one-on-one video conference session with you. Yep. It's usually the most helpful. Yes. So as these products are all custom made, it's really important for us to start um a reference guide and a relationship with the cyclist early on. For sure. So we can well, excuse me. So uh we can best perform our design and and acquire the correct photometry needed to begin the custom process. Yep. Yeah, for sure. It's a it's a process. And I mean, and they're the the road bars will be on the site when when we have the ordering process on it, you know, there'll be more standard options for the road bars than like on the track bars. But um because it's a little bit more standardized road bars than track. Because the track there's so many specific front ends and UCI regulations and there's just a lot on track. So by that you're talking about like how it attaches to like each person's specific. Yeah. Head. Yeah. So the head. Well, head tubes, steer tubes, it's gets a little confusing sometimes if it's a head tube or if it's well, technically they're usually steer tubes connecting to. But some of them have like that bayonet style like front mast where they connect to, like the old TK ones, a lot of the looks. So the mounting is different. So you're saying road bars are more standard? Road bars are more standard. Because most everything matches up to an inch and an eighth. Some an inch and a quarter steer tube. And that's about it. Um there's some tricks now with internal cable routing and like some clearance things. But for the most part, everyone pretty much uses that. Um and the UCI regulations, there are UCI regulations on road bars. Only a tenth of the percent of cyclists go under that regulation. Um on the track, more people that ride track bars are more inclined to go under some sort of UCI test. So we look at UCI regulations a little more strictly on the track bars than we do on the road bars. Mhm. Okay. So. So yeah, so the road bars are kind of like in a final finalization process at the moment. So you may have seen a sneak peek of them either on our Instagram Instagram page. Yep. We had a couple pictures on the Instagram. Or if you happen to go to Autodesk University last month in New Orleans. Yep. They were on on display on top of uh one of our road frames, our RF 20. Um, they were included in that software and design conference because those designs are part of a much larger project that we're working on in conjunction with um our partners and the Metaverse. Yes. Which I've seen. now everywhere. Yeah. Because like Facebook has a huge ad about the metaverse. They do. A lot of people do. Uh and it's yeah, yeah. I just saw an ad that came through. I don't know if it was on Facebook or Instagram. It was learn how. It's the same thing. Oh yeah. It well, yeah. So it might have been both. Um, it was learn how to draw. Have you seen that one? No. So learn how to drum in the metaverse. Oh, that's cool. So you I'm not sure how it works if you have a physical drum or you just draw circles on a table and have a stick. I don't know, but it teaches you like. Oh, that's cool. And then you see your hands. I also don't know how that part works either. I guess you're supposed to get the Facebook goggles then. Probably. Maybe. I didn't actually click on it. Oh. But I was just assuming. that or some other pair with like video. It's some sort of yeah. And it taught you like right hand hit this drum. I don't know how to play the drums. Anyway, anyway. So I've seen it everywhere. But our version is a little different. Yeah, we're definitely approaching it in a much different manner. We're not thinking of it as what you see in the Facebook ads. For what we're talking about metaverse applications and digital twins. Mhm. We're much more talking about in the idea of of fully digitizing and building a digital twin of the entire company so that you can optimize manufacturing workflows and design workflows and basically. That's a whole other podcast. Yeah, that's a whole other podcast. That's a whole other podcast. But as well as I was going to do is Autodesk University, which we attended and you spoke and taught a class. And we were on display, a prominent display in the Lenovo booth. That also is enough to package another podcast. Which will probably be the next podcast. Yes. For sure. Because. Um, you know, in relation to time, it should have been like two weeks ago. But it's us. So it'll be on a two month delay. Yeah, a little delay. No big deal. So, um, anyway, so let's. But I was talking about how the the bars were in that. Because of design. And that is what we want to segue into is design. And the design that you've made. Which we've spoke about last time for Corey Williams bars. That arrow bar extension. For his time trial. Yes, his time trial bike. Um. Which was really cool because he raced him in the Commonwealth games. Okay, so the last podcast I was reading over the notes. It was so long ago. He was in the sunny something. Oh yeah. Valley of the sun. Valley of the sun. That was what he last wrote it in. So we have not talked about the Commonwealth games. Okay. Well, um. Yes. Cory has done a handful of time trials on it. And he's been he's he was our first. He's he is the one of the main reasons why we actually came out with that bar. Um, I've talked about it for years. But he kind of pushed me to do it. So we did it. You made arrow bar extensions. We've made arrow bars in the past. We've made them years and years ago. Um. But you never like form fitted them to someone's arm. We did. We did it differently. It was not a very. We did we did do that to a certain degree. To the degree that we could at the time. Um, but we didn't do it in a very scientific manner. We just basically tried to. minimize the frontal surface area as much as we could and and make the leading edge as sharp as possible. And that was kind of the concept and that was it. Okay. Um Corey's bars and the new arrow bar custom extensions are far more complex than that. Um and how they're how they're designed and how they're manufactured. Um because the way we used to make it was just it wasn't scalable, it wasn't predictable, um it was just really difficult to do right. So the Corey system, the way we made for those bars is much different. So, and we've talked about it in over a little bit, but the manufacturing process in the past. Um but the big thing with Corey was to try and be able to get the bars out there. And also like refine the process. Um, you know, kind of set the standard and what we expected from the bars, which did really well. It it actually exceeded our expectations in the beginning. But, you know, we had um we were a little overweight. Um on the original bars. Um some of the the ways we made the the arm pads were not um they weren't to the standard that we want. So, oh, real quick. For anyone who might not know. What an arrow bar extension is. Yeah. For time trialist, which is what they just race by themselves trying to beat a time. The race of truth. Uh, they call that. Yeah, because it's just you by yourself against the clock. Um, okay. So they're in like a laying praying mantis position if you will. Like a downhill speed skier. So they have their arms kind of like up in front of them and resting horizontally. Yeah, so they're kind of tucking up their arms. So you need to make a bar where they could just lay on it. Kind of, yeah, so I mean their back is basically parallel to the ground and their arms, um, you know, their biceps are perpendicular to the ground and they're trying to basically use their forearms to shield their face and close their frontal cavity. Um and to create a very aero profile. That's what they're trying to do. Um. So for Corey's bars, he sent you like photos of his position. He sent us photos of his position. He sent us a bunch of data and then from there, I actually modeled him into a parametrically driven 3D model of Corey. Um and his bike and his setup. And then using that and uh some customized software, basically created him in in hundreds of different poses and positions. And then ran that through some really high-end CFD simulation software. So that we could basically predict the wind flow that would occur across him. At about his speeds. He would be riding at. So we did basically um at three different speeds and at at 10 different angles and wind conditions. Mhm. Um to get like a good idea of what each position would kind of achieve. Um and then basically did that position, I believe on Corey, we did about 350 positions. Um and then found the best, the fastest five that we thought was the best. Uh discussed it with him, narrowed that down and came. up with the the the refinement of his position that was the best for tunnel testing. And then and designed and optimized what in that process also optimized the bars. using CFD data to shape the bars. is what we did. Yeah, so if you go to Instagram, you can check out the picture. the bars with Corey on them. And they're like weirdly weird. They're all straight. Yeah. And they're not and they're not squiggly. They're like undulating thicknesses. like a snake got ran over by a car a few times. Well, no, I'm just saying the shape. I also comfort, I mean, Corey wrote him. He can tell you about the comfort. I put my arm on them and that's not like how a human arm should actually flex. Like if you rode like how long is the time trial? 20 minutes? 30 minutes? Yeah, anywhere from 15. If you rode in this position for 20 minutes and then you get off your bike and you decide you want to straighten out your wrist again. Like you will crack it and break it. Um, well, it's it's shaped around how Corey positions his hands. in in the TT. So, I mean, it's it's based around him. Um, and anyway, so yeah, and there's also UCI regulations inside of that as well. Really? There's there's. Oh, like where? How far the extension can go, how much lift there can be from the pad to the bar. But not like the angle of your arm, like if you want. There's restrictions. your arm at a certain angle. There's restrictions. Like your wrist. The your forearm angle and the pad angle and the angle that you can achieve. There's restrictions on all of that. You just it's a it's it's a it's an exercise of threading the needle through a bunch of restrictions. So. Mhm. Um, it's hard. Okay. So that bar was out there. He wrote on it. So why are we making another one? Um, so he we're we're well, we've been making a few of the bars. And we're we're now finalizing the we've come to the final recipe for those bars. Um, we've basically took the original bar that we made him. That was. He I think he had probably about a 60 to 75 gram penalty for riding the bars. Mhm. versus his stock setup. The extensions. Um, but we're now basically taking that weight and cutting it in half. Um. by just optimizing the patterns and and understanding um after getting some road feel. like road testing on it, um and actual experiences of like real racing. And how the bars responded and did. Um, realizing where we can what we can do and how we can refine the the layups. Um. And also like I kind of have the philosophy of like when we design something. You know, I we go on prototypes, it's usually 5X. Like on structural. Like we go way overboard on a lot of that stuff, especially when we're not too focused on weight. Like an arrow bar. We're more focused on position. Um and shape is is more important than the weight. So like I don't mind if there's like a weight penalty. you know, if I like we know that, you know, it's going to pass our threshold test by, you know, five times, like it's fine if it's, you know, 100 grams too heavy. Um, it's not really going to make or break anything. Um, but now in the refinement process, we want to go back in and and find that, you know, 100 grams, 150 grams, and if we can remove it, why not? Mhm. So, um, also because the the the internal skeleton of that bar is 3D printed. Um, there is a cost savings in making it lighter. Um, so, you know, we're just kind of balancing all of that. So. Are there any more time trials? What is he writing this next? Uh, yeah, he's going down to, um, it I think it believes. I think it's believes. He has a I don't know. If it's the Belize National Championship. Or it's the He's going down to South America to do there's a race he has in South America. He just leaves, I think in a couple days. So. But he won't be riding the ones that are in the back of my shop right now. No, he won't be riding the new bars. The new bars we've made a couple tests of them, we're just refining that layup and trying to get it just right. Just get that recipe just right so that we can get it so it's also, you know, we're making it lighter, stronger, um, and, you know, it's easier to lay up. That's a that's a big one. Because that's a very organic shape if you look at those shapes. It's a hard layup, it's a hard part to make. Mhm. So, um, it's a challenging part. So, trying to get that right. Yep. Um, is there anything else you want to talk about? The extensions? No, the other thing that's really cool about the extensions is the pads. I think the pads are super cool. We mold those in house ourselves. Um, and the new updated pads are very intricate. There's lots of um, it's it has basically it's a progressive density. Or it has progressive rebound across the the pad. So it's it has um, it is more dense, it has faster, stronger rebounds in towards your elbows and as you go to the front to the bar, it's a softer, uh, less dense material. Maybe the way to explain it. So, um, and it's also a lot lighter. And we were at the AU conference and we were looking like for 3D printer booths. There are some materials. There's some cool materials. That you can print that are like squishy and soft. Oh yeah. Mhm. I'm wondering if that is something that would be more expensive though. It's expensive. Um, it becomes quite expensive to make the pads. It's also makes. Plus your pads you said you can wash and clean and throw them in the dishwasher. I don't know about those materials. Yeah, so our materials can go up to about 700, 800 degrees Fahrenheit. So that is far greater than anything a dishwasher will ever do. I mean, I'm sure a dishwasher doesn't even hit 200 degrees. So. I have no idea. Hit the button and walk away. Yeah, well, water evaporates at far less than 200. Anyways. Not the point. Oh, really? Oh, that science. I've never even thought about. Okay. Anyways. Well, another day. Another day. Cross my mind. Um, so, yeah, that's it. That's it. Uh, so I would, I would, um, Uh, yeah, it's it's a cool pod. The pod's really cool. And the pods and the the arrow cups will be the plan is to make them available separately. So if you have an arrow bar that you have now and you just want the pads, um, you can order the pads on the website in the in the next month or two here. Yeah. So, we're working on that. We're working on the major road cockpit. Yep. Finalizing. Yep. Which hopefully will be live here before first quarter of next year. For sure. Um, and, you know, we're just continually selling the DIY repair kits. Winter's a good time to fix your bike if it's broken. Yep. And then all the shims, cleat wedges. Uh-huh. And then we have all of our, um, spire and hook, um, arrow, um, speed plugs. For your time trial bikes and uh, tri bikes, TT bikes. Um, that we do custom. We also made a couple custom of them already. Um, and then also we have the custom pro, um, cleat adapters. So if you have like a leg length discrepancy and or a angle, um, um, that you need on on on a wedge or, you know, um, we can accommodate that into a single piece. So we can do like a, you know, three millimeter, uh, a three degree wedge with a 1.5 degree leg length discrepancy. Things like that, which has been pretty popular. Mm-hmm. So. So, uh, going into fall and winter is a good time to reassess your cycling. Um, way of life. I don't know. Yeah. Do I need a new bike? I don't know. Maybe. Do I need a shim? I think a bike might be better. Anyway, so as I mentioned earlier, we were at Autodesk University in New Orleans last month. Mm-hmm. Showing off the RF 20 and the major cockpit. Yep. Road cockpit. And, um, that in itself is deserving of a whole other podcast episode. And we'll cover it probably next. But, um, unlike a bike show, Autodesk University is a design conference. And we were guests at the little of us. Because we utilize their P620 workstation in conjunction with Nvidia's RTX A6000. And. That wasn't practice. We are, um, we're specifically distributing our design process and the simulation and realistic metaverse and goals of creating digital twins of our podcast, or our workflows and our processes, and as you mentioned, even our entire workshop floor. Mm-hmm. In one unifying ecosystem represented in a digital world. Yep. Um, That. Very well said. Yeah. It's really interesting and I know we've talked about Nvidia's Omniverse on multiple occasions. Yep. Um, but, um, what we've never introduced before, is our own networking slash communication tool slash platform. Yes. I work. I work. Not IO, but IO as an A Y O work. Yep. Because you're Armenian. I am. And IO in Armenian means yes. So. work. Yep. Because it loves work. Yes. So, it's an interesting concept that we're working on along with the tech partners mentioned previously. Yep. And I just wanted to encourage our listeners to take a peek at work.app. Yep. That's A Y O W O R K. app. Yep. I feel like I just This sounds like a radio commercial. It sounds like it. That's cars for kids. K A R S for kids. Um. Uh. Yeah. Anyway. We're definitely going to dedicate a podcast to that. For sure. Um, I work. That's that's a big topic. Yes, and discuss our journey as a National Science Foundation grant candidate for that. Yep. Which I'll be working on throughout this coming year. So, we'll talk about that more in depth. Much left of the year. I mean, I said this coming year. Oh, yeah. This coming year. Yeah, yeah. Now, I have until mid-year next year. Ah, yes. To write a grant. So low. Anyway. So, um, things to mention. Um, the pilot road cockpit on its way. Yes. We're gearing up for a possible Nvidia GTC, uh, maybe. You teaching possibly or talking? We're talking about it. We're trying to come up with a In the first quarter of next year, I think. Yeah, I think it's March. We'll have more about that as we learn more. Yeah. And then, um, just general mayhem until exhaustion. That's that's a good way of putting it. That's it. That's all I have. Anything else you want to mention? Um. No. The just, yeah. The arrow bars are up on the site that people can look for. Um. And so are the track bars and the road bars are coming soon. Um, yeah. Those are all really exciting. I mean, those are huge products that we're super psyched for. Um, and then obviously the RF 20 as well. Yep. Okay. We thank you for choosing to take some time with us. And we look forward to future breakaways. Look for us on Instagram and LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, and in person here in Tennessee. We ask our listeners to please share, like, and subscribe. We're available on all major streaming platforms. Thanks for listening. Have a good one and find some time to break away.
EpisodeOct 18, 2022 · 23:15
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Project Breakaway with Predator Cycling
37: Aero in All the Right Places: An Introduction to our Aero Extensions, EP. 037
In this episode, Predator Cycling introduces their custom-designed aero extensions, with detailed discussions on their available track bars and upcoming road bars. The hosts delve into the intricate custom fitting process, the influence of UCI regulations on design, and their unique manufacturing approach for these high-performance components.
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