13: The Architecture Behind The Genius Water Bottle Cage, Ep. 13

Hello, and good day to you from episode 13 of our podcast series Project Breakaway. A metaphorical and literal time in the day when we here at Predator Cycling take some time away from working in the back shop to come and share with our listeners what we're doing, how we're doing it, what it takes to do it, our ideas, our innovative success stories, and even our missteps and failures. If you find yourself with an interest in bicycles, composite manufacturing, out of the box design, or even curiosities beyond, I encourage you to stick with us, settle in, and learn a little. I'm Courtney B, co-owner and project manager of Predator Cycling. I'm here with my partner, Arm Gaganian, the other co-owner, CEO, lead designer and engineer, and design nerd, double design nerd, of Predator Cycling. How's it going, Arm? It is going absolutely wonderful. Yeah? Yes, and I just wanted to congratulate you cuz it is not International Women's Day, and you are a woman. Of International mystery. Of International mystery. Well, thank you. And I don't know if I get anything for today. I don't see any presents on my desk. You have a coffee in your hand? Uh oh, yes, the coffee that I bought. But I went with you to buy it. Does that count? Yeah. I just I just want you to know that you are very much appreciated in this company. You are very Thank you. Very important anchor. Did you take a poll within the company? You took a poll. 100% of 100% of employees at Predator Cycling absolutely love you and think you're incredible and uh can't say enough good things about you Okay. And appreciate you. Well, thank you. So, Well, you know maybe we'll make you wear a hat or something the rest of the day. No, I'll mess up my hair. Okay, so let's get going here. On last week's episode, we talked about the launch of our new 3D printed water bottle cage, the Genius. It's now officially available on our website. So, you can go check it out. Um we were going to discuss this week about another 3D printed product that we plan on making available soon, but we got um quite a lot of feedback on the water bottle cage after we launched it. So, I think I wanted to focus a little more on the Genius water bottle cage in this episode, and also more specifically about the design and architecture behind it. Yeah. Because in last week's episode, we basically did a brief description of of the water bottle cage. Yeah. It's 3D printed, it's not composites, it's 20 grams, non-corrosive ceramic finish, it's um uh topology optimization was used on that. Let's I guess dig more into that. Yeah, for sure. Well, I mean, there's a there's a lot behind that cage, and I mean, last week's episode is kind of a highlight reel of kind of the features of it Right. as a product. And now the nerds have come out wanting more. Yes, I'm actually which is just up your alley. Oh, yeah. This is totally what I do. So, um that kind of segues into So, we work with a lot of software companies, if you didn't know. You haven't figured that out yet. Uh I know a lot of the listeners of this podcast are employees or have associations with the companies these software companies. Yeah. So, if you're anticipating a conversation about bicycles today, you might want to go grab a coffee and a magazine or put on Netflix in the background. But um leave the volume low because you'll probably still learn something. Yeah, for sure. This is definitely geared towards the software side of things on how we how we achieve our workflow for um this topology optimized generatively designed cage. And it's it's really a bigger question. I was I'll let you ask the question, and then I'll I'll I'll go down the rabbit hole. Yeah, just yeah, it's your rabbit hole, it's not mine. The only word in that uh sentence I liked was achieve a workflow, complete a product, and sell it. Yes. But you have you know all the nitty-gritty behind all that. So, um one question that we got was how do we leverage the software to make the product? Right. Um we use Fusion 360 um generative uh engines for functionality of the product in conjunction with Ansys Discovery. So, explain that process in more detail. Okay, for for those of you that aren't super familiar, let me give you a little bit of background on both of the softwares that they're um um s Fusion 360 is a really cool design software that has a lot of different functionality built in. It has um you can design products using um parametric designs, which is kind of like basically understanding your history and what happened so you can update things. And then it also has really cool um uh T-spline, which is similar to sub-D modeling, which gives you these organic shapes and features. It also has simulation built in, and it has CAM built in, and a bunch of other things. It's a really powerful tool. Now, Discovery Live by from Ansys is has modeling built in through a product called SpaceClaim they brought into it, which is a really cool direct modeler. Um but or Ansys discovery really shines is in its live um uh physics solving engine. So it actually solves locally on your system live simulation data and um Ansys has very, very, very powerful simulation tools. So you can put in custom materials, remote loads, all kinds of details of information in and run really advanced simulations inside of um uh inside of Discovery, which you can then leverage and take to other more sophisticated uh simulation tools through Ansys's family. Um so one of the things is like in in what we're trying to do, where we're trying to design a part that has restrictions and um goals that we have in mind very clearly defined in our bottle cage. We're trying to hold a water bottle cage. We're trying to keep it under a certain weight. We're trying to hold such uh an amount of force on the bottle. We're trying to do all these things. Um so we can define those relatively easily. It's not hard to figure those numbers out. Now, figuring out how we want to optimize the shape, especially in 3D print realm, where a lot of the materials and processes are not defined, where you have material libraries that are set. Um Um uh kind of explain what you mean uh So okay. by material library. So okay. You're making it out of you've decided you're making a product. Right. You're deciding to make it out of a specific material. Usually carbon fiber in this case a tough 3D print. Right. So you go into this library and you're looking for what? Well so right. I'm going into this material library and I'm I'm I haven't quite figured out exactly what material I may be using. I might have narrowed it down to five. And I'm looking for those materials. Now those materials in most cases don't exist. When you're saying material library, you're talking about literally you're looking at the software and they have a list of materials. Yes. It's like your iTunes library, but it says Absolutely. wood, carbon fiber, aluminum. Right. But your says right. Says like like for instance aluminum. Well what type of aluminum? Oh I got it. 6061, 7075 T6, T4, like I mean different treating processes, how it's been finished, it's coated. Because all that matters. All of that matters in simulation. And then there's variations of all of that. So Explain why that matters in simulation a little bit. Because of like Well because the material heat and how things expand and if you use cuz if you're on a bike and you're um I don't know riding in cold weather or the snow or Yes. water on your cage. It matters on those levels too. Yes. Uh it also matters on how the material responds. Like you know different types of plastics like ABSs or nylons all respond to temperature heat um phasing of like how their phase how the how the the repetition use of the part um all of those things affect the material differently. Mhm. So just having for instance like the tensile strength of the material isn't enough. Um we want to know all of the different there's a lot of different And Ansys went ahead and figured out all the properties of most of these materials? They have uh depending on your packages that you get from the product, they they make a massive library. And we have that huge library. And that gives a starting point. Now the problem that you have in 3D print is um a lot of those materials are still not in there. And like our materials are not in there. But we can use materials that they have in there and then material data that we can get ourselves and figure out a much closer material property of our product. So you can use their existing materials as a reference. Yeah. But then can you put in properties You can put in all your alter it? Yes. You can put in all your own custom uh properties. And so that's where Ansys really comes to shine for us. So kind of just backing up a little bit back to the question and like kind of talking about the workflow and the concept. I I'm a Fusion person. I've been a Fusion guy for six years, seven years now. Um so I am very familiar with it. I know how to model in it. It's my go-to modeling platform. So I model all of my initial products in uh in Fusion. Which is super accessible to anyone. Yes. It's they have a free license. I know there's some controversy about their free license lately. But um Oh that I have no idea. It is just a limit now. They changed the limits on it. Anyways, it's still a super It's accessible to design still a super powerful program. Um but yes, it's super accessible to everybody. And it has some really cool modeling tricks and tools. And we use that to start our modeling process and our initial um shapes and restraints and and then one of the things that we've started doing is we actually take that and go into uh Fusion 360 has its own generative engine. Autodesk really pioneered this you know years ago. Um and you basically put in your um hard points. So like you'd put in your obstacle geometry and like your touch points where your product are. And it actually uses uh an AI engine to basically build the part for you. So we use that in part of our workflow. So we'll actually get that run it, put it into um Autodesk generative um and we'll get results back and then look at those results and based on those results we will fine-tune a geometry that works for our model. Mhm. And then we'll take that model model and bring that into discovery Ansys discovery and then put in all of our custom material properties and then really go to town on trying to optimize that shape. Mhm. So we'll get that rough shape in and then I also go back and try and validate against each other because they're very similar both Ansys discovery topology optimization and Autodesk generative are trying to achieve very very similar things and they're doing it in a very different way. So I love to actually use both. So I run Autodesk generative. I see what my results are. I run Ansys discovery. I see what my results are. I see the similarities between the two of them and then I start taking that model and refining it and then putting it into discovery so that I can fine tune my results. And then when that's once that's done, that comes back into fusion where all of the surfacing work is done and modeling work is refined um and then from there it goes out to uh hard points geometry points and things and then goes to 3D print. Mhm. Um and then we test the prototype that we get and we can validate that against our simulation data that's within Ansys. That's super accurate. And then you just hit print and send it to the Who where do you send to the printer in in fusion? Uh so from fusion it goes to our our our slicing setup where we actually not a slicer of it. We partition the part up so that we can print it. It's a software that comes out but it comes out of the fusion 360. Mhm. Yeah. And then it prints right here in the back of our shop. Sure it does. Actually the printers are sitting just right next to us. So uh second question also uh follow-up question expanding on um and I guess more Ansys was uh we got a lot of questions as to why we posted a few photos when we launched the um cage. It's offered in black, it's offered in red and then we posted simulation photos. So I got asked uh quite a few questions about why we had a rainbow color scheme on the photo of the cage I posted. And although we here at Predator are completely inclusive of all customers um right if they identify as a LGBTQIA or not um the photo is actually a multi color image of loads and stresses uh from a photo from Ansys. So uh although rainbow would be cool to sell um I'm not that um a professional painter yet so That would be a lot of work That would be really cool but um explain the stress points of that photo. Uh there was a lot of blues and reds and greens. Yeah. Is red bad? Uh red in bad is maybe not the right word but um it is highest stress. That is where the most amount of stress is. So I noticed on the cage the highest amount of stress was um on the um top of the yeah front lip top of the cage. Yeah. Is that because that's just like where it the last point when a bottle comes out hits it or Kind of. Um so you're getting into some of the technicalities of how our cage works. So our cage is actually unique in some of its properties. So one of the things that our cage does is it's actually it expands when the bottle goes inside. It doesn't just um it expand on like an opening or a slit is to flex and grip it. It actually um opens like kind of like a shark's mouth opens the way the pivots are designed. So it pivots open and expands um where if you were sitting on the bike the left to the right of it. Mhm. And so the stress point of it is that front area on the top of the cage because of the way it's bending out and stretching open. Mhm. And that's what gives that cage its you know I think you referred to it as the Predator bite on the bottle. It really hugs that bottle. Predator grip. Predator grip. The arms of a Predator grip. I forgot what I wrote. You wrote something it was really good but that is what that's why we say that because it really just grabs onto that bottle. So red isn't necessarily like bad or a stress point. It just means that's the highest load of stress. That's the highest amount of stress stress or it could also be on deflection. You could it could also represent deflection on the test result. We those are the two graphs that we look at the most is is for stress and then also for deflection. Um for deflection that would be the most because that's literally the place that moves the most. Also the top where the it goes in where it holds the top of the cage that top lip um would also have a lot because it it it has to flex when the the bottle goes in and out. Right. So Um so we think that this type of design um is a glimpse into the future for additive manufacturing or 3D print 3D printed direct to consumer products that we're going to sell. So let's quickly explain additive versus subtractive. Okay. And because this isn't our usual um song and dance when it comes to product launches. Yes I mean to be honest we typically like I would argue that composites is additive in general that is my my argument to most people. My counter argument though would be to make the molds be subtractive. Absolutely. Absolutely. I 100% agree with that. That's what it is. Yes. Um yes. Um Yeah, but like what I mean by that is that in subtractive manufacturing, you typically are starting with this big block of material. For instance, our molds. We have this big block of aluminum that's cut down to size, and then we sit there and for hours and hours we remove material. Yeah. So, there's a penalty for your material removal. You you have a cost penalty to that because you had to buy this material and then you basically cut it into chips on the floor and recycle it or throw it away, depending on the material. Um, so that being said, additive, you don't have that penalty. That penalty isn't there. You actually get a a it's a plus to have less material. So, if you can optimize your shape to make it lighter, stronger, um, by using things like topology optimization, generative design, simulation tools, you can actually create a product for less money that's lighter and stronger. So, that's where big thing is, but additive is essentially, I mean, it's additive. You're adding material to create the part, where subtractive, where you're taking away material to make the part. Mhm. So, um, yeah, I mean, it's there's a huge difference and and for us, like we've said in many podcasts before, additive manufacturing is something we've always used for toolings and fixtures and parts inside the shop. We've always used it. It's been a great tool. Um, to start leveraging that into direct to consumer parts is a huge thing for us and it's, you know, I think it's going to be a big um, gateway for us into new products and and other things. Yeah. And I think the other thing that's really interesting is is hope hopefully we'll be talking about end of the year more is mixing of of additive and composites. Um, I think the mixing of those two is a really interesting topic that we can have later. Yeah. On some uh, more product or more handlebar type products, right? Yeah. Yeah, and Oops, I gave it away. And then some other things, yeah. Um, okay. Well, um, let's uh, talk about some other recent news here. Yep. So, um, is currently working on putting together his GTC class this year. Yep. GTC is Lenovo's GPU Technology Conference. It's Nvidia's. It's Nvidia's GPU Technology Conference. I get so mixed up in all these things. I'm sure Lenovo's involved somehow. Um, this conference They will be speaking at uh, There you go. They will be speaking at GTC. Yeah. We're all friends. We're all friends. Um, this conference is going to be virtual due to COVID, just like everything else for the last year. Um, but you can sign up to hear Arm's talk about how Predator leverages uh, GPU to accelerate our simulation paths um, for our 3D printed parts. Yep. Um, you were also accepted into ANSYS Simulation World Virtual Conference. Yep. Um, in which you'll also be hosting a talk on how we use ANSYS product to optimize our 3D prints. Yeah. Also, at the um, Simulation World, I'm going to be speaking with um, I have a co-speaker, a guy um, uh, Mike Geyer from Nvidia. Yep. Who'll be there. So, that'll be fun. Mhm. Give a little different perspective on it. So, they're two similar talks about our 3D printed products, but they're highlighting two very different systems used to assist in the development of those products. For sure. So, the the in the GTC talk is going to be very much geared towards the idea of how we how we leverage GPU acceleration into our workflows and how that is a main, I mean, to be honest, it's it was game-changer for us last year moving over to GPU solvers for our for this exact product. And in um, Simulation World, we'll be talking about much more on the software side of how we actually use the software um, to to optimize our workflows for um, the cage in particular. Both both of the classes we'll be highlighting the cage. Yep. Um, because that's the product we currently have on the market. So, Yep, yep. Okay, so, let's wrap it up. Okay. So, uh, we thank you for choosing to take some time with us and we look forward to future Breakaway. Look for us on Instagram and LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, and in person here in Tennessee. We ask our listeners to please share, like, and subscribe. We're available on all major streaming platforms. Thanks for listening. Have a good one and find some time to Breakaway.