Hello and good day to you from episode 41 of our podcast series Project Breakaway. A metaphorical and literal time in the day when we here at Predator Cycling take some time away from working in the fact shop to come and share with our listeners what we're doing, how we're doing it, what it takes to do it, our ideas, our innovative success stories and even our missteps and failures. If you find yourself with an interest in bicycles, composite manufacturing, out of the box design, or even curiosities beyond, I encourage you to stick with us. Settle in and learn a little. I'm Courtney B, co-owner and project manager of Predator Cycling. I'm here with my partner, Arm Goan, the other co-owner, CEO, lead designer and engineer, and soon to be Polar Express expert. How's it going, Arm? Uh, it's going really well. I am a Polar Express expert. You are. You're a soon to be Polar Express expert. I'm working my way up there. I've had to watch that movie three times in 24 hours. Yeah, yeah, you did it three times. I did it once. And I believe I have one on the docket tonight unless grandma's taking one for the team right now. I don't know. She probably is and then there's probably still one on the docket for tonight. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I don't know, man, four-year-old loves the Polar Express. But then he wants me to explain the entire movie to him. So I've come up with all sorts of reasons why things happened. And let me tell you that that hobo angel on the top of the train is the hardest thing to explain. Yeah, cuz I don't know. And also how the train got back to his house. Because they go on this adventure there. And there's ice, and there's a lake, and there's derailment. But they don't even say on the way back. I was like, is the track okay? That's the questions I had to answer. How did they get back? He's he's smart. He figures it out, he figures out the whole movie. No, he doesn't figure it out. I figure it out and I tell him. Well, he asks the right questions though. Is there a Polar Express too? I don't know. Probably there's a Polar Express too. I've seen the scenes. I've seen the scenes return. Back over the lake. I don't know. Anyway, it's the season. Yes. Okay, let's jump in. Um, so we basically got two more podcasts to get in before the end of the year. Today. Mhm. And New Year's Eve Eve. Um, we'll be traveling for early Christmas next week. Mhm. So no podcast. Nope. And then before you know it, ma'am, 2023. That's really scary. Yeah. That this year's gone so fast. Like I I yeah. I don't I don't know if I comprehended the year's over yet. Yeah. So. But it was a good year, got a lot of stuff done, so. Yeah, so we had a pretty successful little Black Friday. And Cyber week, not Monday, because I feel like it's Cyber week. Everywhere I saw. Yeah. Um, anyway, we had an end of the year bump and um, we have one quite possibly two last minute end of the year RF 20 builds. Yeah. Which was a little surprise. I I did I was not expecting it. We had we've been pretty busy with those RF 20s and um we did, we got a couple um last minute RF 20s before the end of the year. So that's pretty cool. Um, so I know we've talked a lot about the RF 20s over the past two years, maybe three years. 20, 2022, yeah. Um, but uh, I don't know if we've actually discussed um, how our customers go about inquiring or ordering or the starting point. Yeah. Of a custom frame. Um, a custom works always kind of confusing and I don't know, intimidating. I don't know. Maybe. Maybe. I don't know. You're intimidating. I'm intimidated. Oh, I'm intimidating. Yeah. I thought I was I was going to say, I'm always intimidated by that stuff. Oh yeah, no, for sure. Like I'm just like, it doesn't work. Okay, I'm going to go. Uh, yeah, no, that's totally for sure. Um, and that was, I mean, that's part of one of the reasons why we did the builder. Okay. Well, we do, as I was going to say. Oh, sorry. Sorry, sorry. Um, we do have an online bike builder on the website. Where you can design your fork and frame with paint schemes and then we have drop downs of certain components and build kits and wheels and cranks and all that stuff. Um, but a lot of people just kind of use those estimates as like a price configurator. And then then they reach out to us for like a proper and more accurate build and price. Yeah, that was kind of the point of it. And that's kind of how it's been used pretty much. Um, you know, a lot of times we get questions like, you know, how much is, okay, the frame is this much, but how much is this component set and these wheels and these bars and this and that and this. So it just made it really kind of tricky to to do all the time and it would take us hours. Um, so we built the bike configurator so you could kind of build that out and at least get a park. And the components on that are like kind of like a run of the mill type part. I mean, because you can still get like random components. Yeah, so we have most of it. Like I mean, so one of the things about the RF 20 is it's it's only disc brake compatible. Um, and it's only electronic shifting compatible. Does that really lower the amount of components available? I mean, you only really have. You have the only components you have available to you is uh Campy EPS systems, um the DI2 series from Shimano, um and then SRAM, um the SRAM E-Tap systems. Um and then the the FSA. So there's really only you have all of those should be on the website. I'm pretty sure we have all of them available as options. But if if they're not, you you can. We can do all of those. Um and then we don't have like all of the combinations of cranks and chain says and I mean cassettes and chains and stuff available on the website. But. Plus the builder was made like last year, so that's probably maybe updated to newer versions. Yeah. So they are I'm in the process right now of updating some of the components on there because there it does not have all the latest options and everything. So it's something we're working on right now. Um, but but. idea of the builder is still the same. because you have a very good idea of what the price point is on the bike and what complete bikes are going to cost you and what, you know, how wheels. You know, every time we always have this conversation with people and then it's like, oh, you know, I want these wheels. I'm like, well, great. Those are awesome wheels. Um, but wheels are a big price tag. I mean, they go from, you know, $3 to $5,000 of the high-end wheels. So that's, you know, almost the entire cost of the entire frame. Mhm. So, I mean, that that makes a big difference. really quickly. Um, so, you know, the wheels are the big ones. Um, anyways. So, it gives you options and you can kind of play around with it and see what, see what it's going to be. Yeah. So you can actually, you can totally purchase a bike on the website. Um, but then, I mean, I feel like that would just initiate a schedule with you. a consultation. You'd call me like, okay, thanks for ordering first of all. Yes. But let's discuss this more. So, I think either way you still get pretty much a consultation with you. Yeah, I'll bother you. no matter what. Um, so that, But and I think though that, you know, to be honest, like the consultation part, I think is a really helpful stage for most people. Because a lot of times people are like, you know, this is what I ride, this is what I do. You know, um, you know, we can help you a lot picking out components, what tires to get, what, you know, what saddles to look at, what, you know, bar tapes and all, you know, all these accessories and parts. Like we can help you. That's what we do all day. Absolutely, I mean, that's what you do. That's what you've always done for a custom build. You're just going to sit down and, you talk about it. I mean, it's like, Well, and to understand the rider. Like we want to get to know you. Right. Because you're not just going off and buying a car on the lot. Like you're you're getting a custom piece. Yes. So it is, it is, it is, um, I mean, we, we do not, we don't have like a an entire arsenal of components and stuff that we pick and choose from from here and sell you. Um, we, we have some things that we stock because we order them, you know, all the time. But, um, a lot of what we have is, is, you know, we order the parts in for you, specific for you for your build. Um, so it is, you know, we're not trying to sell you inventory that we have. We are ordering you everything we need, so it doesn't matter to us what you get. Um, we want to make sure you get what you want. and what you need. Um, and also like, you know, that's a big conversation over there. is, you know, about price. Um, budgets. That's one of the things we usually lead with. It's like, you know, great. This is how you want. This is the kind of bike you want. I get that. You know, what what's the budget we're working with? Because we can let's maximize what you can get for that budget. Right. Well, I mean, you lead with that. But you lead with other things. So like, uh, I am, I was going to say Josh. No, I'm me. I'm Courtney. Hi. Uh, I'm aspiring, uh, yeah, I'm in college. I'm a athlete. and I want a bike. And I've ridden my hand me down for five years. And I'm like, you know what? I'm an awesome athlete. I deserve a bike. And, you know, my sugar daddy's paying. So, options are endless. So I come to you and I go to the website and I go to the RF 20. And then I see the book of consultation button. Click it. I'm like, you know what? Got time tomorrow. Going to call. So, fill it out and you give me a call like noon. And then here I am on a zoom call with you. Mhm. And what's like the first thing? I mean, after you tell me how awesome I am. Um, what's the first thing you you kind of go through? Like you're like, have you gotten a fit, what's your size, what's your geometry? Does that come first or like? How do you ride? I usually lead with how often do you ride? Um, what kind of riding do you do? What do you, you know, what what how are you going to ride the bike? What are you going to do with the bike? I want to go to the Olympics. For what event? Uh, the. Um, the road. The road. The long one. The long one. Uh, good answer. Um. Oh wait, not the Olympics. The tour. I'm going to the tour. You're going to the tour. Because I honestly don't know what happens in the Olympics. Okay. Um. I'm on the tour. You're going to the tour next year. Okay. Yeah. Um, well, your verse. And I'm on the team with um, um, Michael. Landa. Landa. And I are on a team. Oh boy. Oh boy. Um, and I, you know, he's really good at going up the hills. Right? Yes. So I want to, I want to ride his wheel. What do I need? You need a really light bike, possibly with two motors. Um, uh, but yes. I mean, the idea is basically. We we understand that, you know, this is what your needs are. So, you know, if you're someone that's looking at being competitive in the mountains. And climbing, you're looking for a bike that is. Um, you know, lightweight. Um, you're going to want gear sets that are lower geared. So, you know, maybe like looking like a 36 or 34 inner chain ring. Um, you know, the new 12 speeds from Shimano and um the 12 speeds from SRAM have a very large gear selection. So you can get from a SRAM is a 10 to 30. Or 10 to 32. Um, and Shimano's the 11 to 30 and 11 34, I think. Um, anyways, it's that range. You can get that large range. 12 gears? Yeah, you can get 12 gears in back now. Is that what like when you were a kid, it was like 10 speed? Does that mean 10 gears? It means, well, 10 speed means there's 10 speeds, which means in in that case, you had two chain rings in the front and you had five in the back. So that's a 10 speed. So you can click it 10 times? You have two knobs to click. I only ever click the one on the left because you told me to stay away from the one on the right. Or was it the opposite? The opposite. Yeah, I put you in the middle chain ring. You had a triple chain ring on your commuter bike and I put you in the middle. How many speeds is that bike? That bike was 27. Speeds? Yeah. And I went three? You probably used two. No, I definitely got I got real hard sometimes. Yeah, I told you not to use the anyways. I told you not to use the front chain ring is what I told you to do. Because we were in LA at the time. And there was no real hills. So the range you had on your nine speed was enough. Okay. Um, but anyways, my point is is that, you know, those kind of gear selections and setups is something that we would look at. Um, because you're going to be. riding a lot of uphill, so, you know, you're going to want some gears so that you can go uphill fast. Also, you know, you're probably looking at, you know, lighter weight wheels. Um, you still want arrow because you're going to go down the descents fast. But, you know, you're looking for something that has, um, you know, as light as we can get in the rims. While still keeping it as arrow as possible. Um, obviously, you know, you got a really good sugar daddy, so price is not an issue. Yeah. He let me buy anything. But in all honesty, um, this bike is not a tour bike. It's. No. It's a, um, I'm fast, but I want to stay on the road and. Yeah. So I mean, the RF 20 is not, um, is it could completely do the tour of France, but is not, that was not the design purpose for the, the, um, for the, the RF 20. The RF 20 was really built around the idea of being the ultimate all-around road bike. Um, you know, we were looking at having bigger tire clearances. So, you know, it clears 30s, but, you know, it with not a lot of space. Um, it clears 28s effectively. Like really effectively. So if you get a lot of road grime, it's not a problem at all. Mhm. Um, and you know, it looks a lot of power transfer, it looks a lot of comfort, so we can do like how we dampen the vibration throughout the frame and the material selections. Um, a lot of that kind of stuff was thought about on the RF 20. Um, also, you know, just maintenance and functionality and how it works. Um, which we've covered in other podcasts about some of the technicalities of the bike. But yes, that was the focus. Right. But if I'm building one, um, I'm Courtney, I'm from Tennessee. You might build the bike different if I was Courtney from California, right? Because Tennessee's got more like mountainous, you know, rock type thing. So would you add, like in the in a discussion with me, would you add, suggest adding carbon? Or other materials to certain parts of the bike? Yeah, we. Yeah, I mean, sometimes out here too, we have like the road conditions is not always the best. Or like wet, does that? Yeah, tire selections make a big difference in wet. Um, a lot of now, I mean, like we're doing disc brakes and pretty much everything we do is hydraulic disc brakes. Um, so I mean, braking performance is pretty darn good. Um, for wet weather or bad weather. Um, definitely tires are going to make a big difference. On what tires you get. What kind of tires? Like out here, like, you know, 28s are pretty much pretty solid. If you're in California, if I was still in California, I'd get 28s or 25s maybe. If you're riding on really good road conditions, you might not need it. Maybe you want the smaller tire. I. It's personal preference. Um, but um, yeah. That's those are all things. Especially wheels. Wheels make a big difference. Um, so if you're riding someplace has a lot of really bad road conditions, you know, you don't, you might not want, um, super deep dish rims. Because that's going to translate a little bit more vibration and um, more impact to the frame. Maybe you want some like 38s or 50s. Um, things like that. You know, those are all little things that matter. Um, and then that in combination with tire selections make a big difference. Um, and gearing and gear selections. And saddles. And what kind of bar tape we do or if, you know, you're getting a set of custom majors on the bike. How we set that up and what, um, what layouts we do on those can make a big difference on the ride performance. Okay. So I'm on Zoom call with you. and we've talked about my bike fit and my geometry and my riding style and the conditions I'm riding in. Mhm. And how much money your daddy's putting in towards it. Mhm. Um, so then from there, you are going to give me a quote. What's your quote look like? Yeah, one something you forgot to mention, um, is paint jobs. Oh, yeah. And color schemes. Um, and the look of the bike. Um, so that that that's usually a pretty big topic as well. That we cover. Um, and you know, what what options do they have and what kind of color schemes do they want and what kind of, you know, we only have a finite amount of options for color on the website. I don't see us expanding beyond those colors at the moment. No. Unless you pay like extra and you want like, you know, Yeah, we can we can we can get any color. Have we done a pink predator? Mhm. That's a TT one. We did two. No, that was like black with pink graphics. No, it was all pink bike with black graphics. Oh. Yeah, it was all this really nice powder pink. It's a cool bike. Um, yeah, we've done a track bike too. Okay, anyway, sorry, I hadn't seen it. They're usually black, people get black. Or blue or white.Yeah, black, blue, we got a couple, we have a handful of gun metals, some reds.Um, but yeah, I mean, the point, yes, we we have a a selection that I think is a really good selection that we've made on our, that actually you and I handpicked all those colors, um, that I think is a really good selection.Um, but we we can go past that.We can get custom colors mixed.I mean, obviously, that starts getting expensive very quickly. It's expensive, just a warning for people. I am so surprised by the cost of paint, but I shouldn't be. I guess after all this, I shouldn't be. Yeah, no, it's it can it can get to be quite a bit very quickly. And you know, the thing you got to remember is a lot of the, you know, paint it's it's labor. It's the cost of paint is there, but then every time you mix a color, you got to mix it. You can't just mix like, you know, two ounces. You're mixing four or five, six ounces of material. You know, you got to spray it, does it look good, does it no? It's got needs more this. Like I just it it's a very long intensive process. But we don't do paint here. We do not do paint. We do third party vendor paint because no one wants you and I painting a bike. No, and I I'm not. I'm not a painter. I'm not an artist. No. No. This is not my thing. So, okay, so you talk about the look. Yeah. And then how do I get my quote? What's that look like? So typically what happens after that consult will kind of come up with some package ideas. And just, you know, this is, okay, this is with this wheel combo and this is with this wheel combo and this is with this paint job scheme. Uh, we'll also check availabilities at that point too. And say like, look, these are available, we can get these in two months. One month. Part, you know, part availability. You're talking about, yeah. Components. Because we're doing the fork and frame. Yeah, fork and frame is here. C post. That's all made here. Um, so that's not. So I get an estimate and I'm like, holy crap, $48,000. Yes, that's usually how it goes. Um, so yes, you get basically a line item thing. So the way we usually do it is, we do a line item, which is the frame, um, the paint schemes that you want, um, everything that you want. And then we do the different wheels and combos usually in the same one. Um, that way you have, you know, you'll have five or six different options. obviously you don't need, you know, six sets of wheels, um, or six different groups or something. So that's usually how it goes. And then you can kind of pick and choose what you want. And let us know. And then we can give you your final invoice. Yeah. So I finalize all the parts. And you send me the invoice. And I pay. And now what's the turnaround time for the framework? What's the turnaround time for the components? That I ordered. Yeah. So typically. I mean, we're looking like right around. It depends on our backlog of of of bikes and components. And what we're manufacturing. So, um, but you know, we're usually somewhere around that eight to 12 weeks. It's is pretty close to our territory where we are. Um, right now we've been kind of backlogged with arrow bars. And we got a couple more of those RF 20 orders that came in. So, you know, we're probably right now in end of December, we're probably looking at closer to, you know, 10 to 12 weeks. But. It depends. We give you a. Um, a number when we start, um, on your, um, in your invoice. There's a lead time for the frames. And then we'll give you our projected lead times for the components as well. Mhm. So. And is it vital that Courtney the super cyclist comes in prior to ordering? For a fit or I've, I'm a super cyclist. I've been fit. Should I wait until the bike's done? And do I even need to come see you? Can I just go to my awesome own personal bike shop that I apparently own now? Um, so. You know, it's up to you. Um. We can only build, you know, bikes and components and builds. As as good as the information as we have. Um. So the more information we can get, the better. Um, we we do have a pretty intensive fit form that we send you. Um, that we ask for dimensions and stuff. Um, you know, if you've been fitted before. Fit sheets are great because that really helps us understand what's going on. Um, if you want to take your fit form and go to your bike fitter. Um, you know, wherever you superstar Courtney lives. Um. I'm on the moon. I'm on the moon. So hopefully there's a good fitter in the moon. Yeah. Um, and then, um, you can get fit by them. And go over the form with them. Um, you can come here. You're more than welcome to come to. Uh. Um, to Nashville. And we will, um, do the fit here, um, and get you sized up. And go over all the final details there. Mhm. Um, it's up to you. Um, you don't have to. There's not not mandated that you do. Um, you know, some people. Hey, I really want to come and do it as part of the experience that I want. Great. Come by and visit. Um, some people, you know. I don't really need to. I know what I want. And, um, it's not, you know, it's not a very big deal. Mhm. Okay. And then how does Predator support my bike? Going forward. Like. You know, something happens to it. Um, I want to swap out my wheels. I want, I my butt hurts. Not from a saddle. I'm not going to answer that yet. Um. So. There's a lot, okay. So, well, first off, on the frame itself, we there's a the frame fork and seat post, there's a five-year warranty on it. For the RF 20s. And that covers the entire thing. And then we also like the bike is incredibly serviceable. So like the bottom bracket system that's inside there is a bonded in shell. And the way we've done that is it's designed in such a way that we can actually remove it and replace it. All of the contact points on the bicycle are all serviceable. So it's all metal contact points throughout the frame. And all of which are designed to be serviceable. So you would have to send it to us to service it. But it can be done. There's a lot of systems out there that, you know, you're basically out of luck. This is fully serviceable. So that's important. We are also the manufacturer itself. So if something did happen and you crashed and, you know, whatever happened to the bike and it was damaged. In most cases, you know, we, you know, we can replace, we can repair the frame, you know, or replace parts if we need to. We are the actual manufacturer, we have all the original molds, we have everything. So. That's possible as well. From a component perspective. You absolutely can call us back up and, you know, if you want a new set of wheels or if you're looking for some sort of upgrade or something. I mean, we are happy to help you. That is not a problem at all. We're here to to help you with your cycling journey. I mean, that is definitely our. Our goal. So. A new motto. We're here to help you with your cycling journey. Yeah. Sure. Uh, yeah. I mean, that that is the point. I mean, we are here to. You know, we talk about total efficiency. I mean, it's that whole package. That's really what we want to help you with. So. I mean, we're a family company. So it's not like we're going to forget who we sold it to or like, you know. Right. No, we. Um, no, we're we we know pretty much every single person that's got a predator bike is. You know. Yeah. And if we don't know the person, we remember the bike. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I remember. Uh, no. Yeah. I think I remember. I don't know. We'll see. There's a lot of quite a few people. So. Um. Yeah. Um. Cool. So that is kind of like an overview of how to order a bike. And it's also pretty much the same process for the custom arrow bars, pretty much the same process for anything custom that we make do in the future or we've done in the past or whatever. Uh, yeah, it's very similar. I mean, the whole processes are all very, very similar to each other. You know, obviously, parts a little different, so sometimes the information we need is a little bit different. But yes, the the process of it is exactly the same. So that's for the currently all the parts we offer like that is the RF 20 itself. Um, the custom arrow bar extensions. Um, the track pilots and the road, um, the road majors. The coming road majors. The coming road majors. Um. Yes. Um. And then the only the only custom part that we do is we do the custom cleat adapters as well. Um, which if you we don't usually do a schedule a consult for, but we can. Aaron loves to talk, so if you want to do a consultation just to have a chat, probably do that too. Uh, yeah. Um, yeah. If it's about bikes. Yes. If you have questions about the Polar Express, I can. You can direct them towards myself. Yes. That's the supreme expert. Or or our son. Or our four-year-old. He would be more than happy to have a chat with you about the Polar Express. Anyway, is there anything else to talk about the ordering process of a custom part through us? No, I don't think so. Any questions I might have missed? Um, I mean, we do, you kind of touched on it, but like we do offer um, layup schedules that we can change up and modify for the bikes. Um, you know, there's some changes like that we can do. Um, But yeah, I think I think we covered everything else. And then just as it as a, I mean, currently in the current climate and where everything is at, you know, we're about two to three months out on components right now. So, Once we order them. Once we order, once we order. Once we get payment from a customer, we put the orders in pretty much immediately, so you get in line. That's usually the same thing. Yeah. Yeah, so as soon as that comes in, we make those orders and get everything placed fast so that we can get it done. But just to give people kind of a heads up, that's kind of um, what we're sitting at right now. Okay. Okay. I think that's it. Things to mention. Um, cleat wedges are at Amazon. And route to Amazon. I don't know. They're sent to Amazon. I know it's their. It's busy time of season. And so they are being input into their system. As we speak. I know customers have said that it looks like a projected ship date of like January or something. But I think those are estimates based on like their giant holiday. Yeah. inventory. They're in peak right now. So, I mean, they're at they're in fulfillment centers right now getting distributed. So they should be available very soon. I think you can purchase them. I think it's just a wait for. Anyway. You can also order on predatorscycling.com. Um, that shipping might be a little faster. Because those are my little hands packaging it up and sending it out next day. Um, uh, we've also, speaking of our website, have opened up a bundle feature. Mhm. That gives um some discounts when you purchase your item with like-minded products. Mhm. So it saves you a little bit of money and um, that's a new thing we're trying out. Yeah. Which I think people I've seen people using. Yes, they have been using quite a bit. Because they get like uh uh DIY kit and some wedges or if they get wedges and some um. Yeah, with the DIY kits you can get the um additional compression tape. Oh, the epoxy and the compression tape. I've seen that. And then for the wedges, I've seen the pedal spacers and. Um, and you can also get the safeguards. Safeguards. Yeah, I kind of I I bundled them in, you know, similar categories. So. Um, But yeah. Can you bundle a bike? I mean, I don't think anyone's just purchased on the website from a bike. No. There's no. I mean, if you if you buy a bike, I'll throw some wedges in. Sure. No problem. And a t-shirt. Um, okay. I don't know about the t-shirt. Okay, fine, a copy of the Polar Express. That's a DVD, what am I giving away? Old technology. DVD. Do we have a D. Oh, we have a D. player, it's not plugged in. We're not, it doesn't matter. We're not watching. We're just giving them DVDs. Oh, to make copies of DVDs. No, I meant to play on our TV. I'm trying to think of even how to make a copy of a DVD anymore. I don't know this technology. It's been so long. I don't think we have. I don't know DVD DVDs on our work stations. I used to have a thing on my Mac, the Ripper. Is that what I used? I don't know. I don't even. I don't even have. I don't even have a Mac anymore. This doesn't matter. Okay. We thank you for choosing to take some time with us. And we look forward to future breakaways. Look for us on Instagram and LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter and in person here in Tennessee. We ask our listeners to please share, like and subscribe. We're available on all major streaming platforms. Thanks for listening. Have a good one and find some time to break away.
EpisodeDec 12, 2022 · 27:51
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Project Breakaway with Predator Cycling
41: How to Buy a Custom Frame, EP. 041
This episode guides listeners through the process of ordering a custom bike frame, specifically Predator Cycling's RF20 model. Hosts Courtney B and Arm Goan explain how their online bike builder helps estimate costs and components. They emphasize that while the builder is a great starting point, a personalized consultation is crucial for tailoring the bike to the rider's specific needs.
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